Chapter 3 Episode 3: It's Either You or Me

The identity of the corporate rebel is revealed. Will he get away with it?

Marie aggressively confronts Paul about the salary disparities in the engineering department. Later, she learns from Mark that Paul is under a lot of pressure because of a legal dispute with the ex-CFO Frank.

Marie and her team facilitates a townhall meeting where the employees in Zebra Apps  work through the company values and what they mean. During the meeting, one of the  engineers from Willie’s department makes a scene and leaves the room. The CTO Jenni admits to Marie that the engineering department is dysfunctional and asks Marie to “fix her team”.

Thank you to Katie Christensen for reading this episode.

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SPEAKER_01 0:15

Transforming wood culture.

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Wednesday morning, Ali woke up with a fever, and Marie decided to stay home with her. Thomas was too excited to start working on his people system to imagine staying home for the day. Marie didn't mind that much. She felt like she needed a break from work anyhow. Since she had forgotten her phone and laptop on her desk, even if she wanted to, she couldn't work. Allie lay exhausted on the couch watching Pepper Pig under a blanket. Marie sat next to her and looked out the window at the birds that were flying in and out of the birdhouse. They had just put it up in the apple tree that autumn. Suddenly Marie heard a ringing. Allie lifted her head for a moment and then put it back down on her pillow. Marie stroked her cheek and got up to walk towards the sound. It was Eric, facetiming her on her iPad. She picked it up. Clever workaround, she said. Mark came by and gave me your phone, Eric said, so I figured I'd need to find another way to reach you. What's wrong with having a child sick day? Marie said. Nothing wrong with that, Eric said, but I'm pretty sure you will want to know what I have to tell you. Intriguing, Marie said. I've spoken to Willie, Eric said. Where was he? Marie asked. He was in the data centre this morning, Eric said. On time for his shift. He is very Marie said, but didn't want to continue. Loyal, Eric said. Somehow that word tasted like ashes in Marie's mouth. Conscientious, she said. He said that it all started with a couple of sugar packets, Eric said. So he admitted that it was him? Marie asked. It's less planned than we assumed, though, Eric said. He said it started with him ripping sugar packets during his lunchtime every time he felt stressed, Eric said. And since no one was using the sugar anyway, he felt like it didn't do any harm. Wait, where would he put the sugar? Marie asked. He would just rip the packet and pour the sugar on his plate before bussing it, Eric said. That seems pretty harmless, Marie said. Then Shane joined the company, Eric continued. And he is well a jerk, Marie said. Eric laughed. He sure acts like one at times, Eric said. Then Willie started taking packets of sugar to rip in the afternoon, since he and the Shane would be working in the data centre together after lunch, Eric said. Would he rip them in the data centre? Marie asked. No, he would rip them in the basement during his afternoon break, eventually filling the boxes that you put your foot through, Eric said. So ripping the sugar packets was a kind of stress valve for Willie when dealing with an uncomfortable relationship, Marie said. Yeah, Eric said. But then he ended up with all this sugar in the boxes, and made his way through all the sugar from the canteen tables. Did he take the sugar from the pantry too? Marie asked. I didn't ask about that specifically, Eric said. But he didn't have a plan on what to do with the sugar. Did Shame put him over the edge? Marie asked. Did you know that Willie is diabetic? Eric asked back. No, I did not know that, Marie said. So when Mark got the soda fridges installed, Eric said, Willie felt excluded from the benefits that the company was providing. So it does have something to do with the soda, Marie exclaimed. And when he learnt that Shane was being compensated way more than he was himself, he just felt like the company wasn't taking care of him anymore, Eric continued. Where is he now? Marie asked. In the data centre, Eric said, working his shift. Marie went quiet. He did not do anything illegal, Eric went on. He did vandalize the canteen, Marie said. That's why I'm calling, Eric said. I need you to speak to Mark and Paul. They will decide what we do with this behavior, Marie thought out loud. You need to make sure that they see Willie's point of view, Eric said. Do they know that you've spoken to Willie? Marie asked. No, and I asked Willie to avoid our floor for today, he said. I'll figure out a way to come in, Marie said, and hung up. She then facetimed Thomas's mother and agreed that she would come over and look after Allie that afternoon. Then Marie changed out of her grace pet pants and into her red pantsuit. Allie mustered all her energy to get off the couch and hug her Nana when she came an hour later. Nana joined Allie on the couch and together they changed the show to a baking competition instead. Marie thanked Thomas's mother for coming on such short notice and rushed out of the door. As she pulled out of her driveway, her clear direction suddenly felt flaccid. What was she going to say to Paul? She thought back to her conversation with Anne at the coffee shop, how Anne had accused Marie of crowding out Paul's initiative when he joined. But she could not see how she could have done anything differently. Paul had just joined as head of HR operations and brought in Esther to manage compensation. Esther was an experienced benefits manager. Until that point, Hannah had been running the salary every month. Natalie herself had hired her. Hannah did not have a higher education, but she could tell you exactly which regulation applied to each type of employee. When Esther joined, most of Hannah's assignments were given to Esther. Hannah was left with pure administrative work. How could we waste such potential, Marie thought to herself. Paul is clearly more interested in credentials than the actual value that people provide. He did it with Hannah, and now he is doing it again with Willie. Why don't we value the great work of people we have? But keep rewarding strangers from other companies. A part of her had wished that she had a favour in store with Paul to withdraw now. Their relationship never recovered from the time Marie shared her frank opinion of Paul's treatment of Hannah. Paul withdrew into his HR operations silo. Marie stayed out of operations, and Paul stayed out of anything that wasn't operations. They didn't even greet each other in the hallway. There were no HR leadership meetings. Paul spoke to them separately. Marie hadn't even known that they were doing exit interviews until Esther dumped the stack of printouts on her desk. What exactly was she going to say to Paul? She parked in front of the office. For a couple of minutes she stared at the steering wheel without moving. Then she turned the key to turn off the engine. She took a deep breath. We'll have to wing it, she thought to herself as she opened the car door. As she walked up the stairs to her floor, she intentionally straightened her back and pulled her chin up. She walked down the hallway, focusing on how her black pumps sank into the carpet with every step she took. She turned the corner and stepped into Paul's office. Paul looked up at her from behind his monitor, his glasses almost sliding down his nose in surprise. Marie, he said. We need to talk, she said, and closed the door behind her. Can we? Paul started, but stopped. Marie looked sternly at him. Okay, Paul said. Let's talk. He pushed the glasses up his nose and leaned back in his chair. Marie sat in the chair across from Paul. She put her bag down but kept her coat on. Paul opened his mouth and was about to say something, but Marie beat him to it. Why are we paying Shane double the amount that we are paying Willie? Marie asked. Paul yanked his head back and frowned his eyebrows, clearly not expecting this topic. Are we? Paul said. We are, Marie said. Listen, Marie, I can't remember everyone's compensation by heart, he said. I can have Esther look into it. He stood up and pointed towards the door. Marie stayed in her chair. He sat back down and looked at her. What is this about? he asked. It's about your principles, Paul, Marie said. Paul rolled his eyes. My principles? he said. He looked at her and put his elbows on the table. It's about you not being able to mind your bloody business, he said in a low tone. Here comes Marie to the rescue of some poor employee being mistreated by HR, he said, shifting his pitch up. Marie could feel her eyebrows crawling all the way up to the top of her forehead. This was the first time Paul had said anything remotely, non mechanically to her. She was not about to let this thaw go to waste. Are you HR in this scenario? she asked. Mistreating employees. He clenched his jaw and tightened his fist. What do you want? he said, now in his regular tone. I want to have a conversation with my colleague Paul, she said. Not the HR operations automatum. Automatum, he said, and threw his hands in the air. Get out, Marie, he said. No, Marie said. We've feuded long enough, she said, and our employees are getting hurt by our lack of collaboration. He shifted in his seat and started looking at the door behind Marie. I understand that I stepped on your toes when you just started, Marie said. That's an understatement, Paul said, and turned away from Marie. Well tell me the real statement, Marie said. You've never told me how I made you feel. That is something you touchy feely guys in development HR have time for, Paul said, waving his hand in the direction of Marie. I have a company to run. He turned towards his monitor and started tapping on his keyboard. Marie stood up and hovered over his screen. Paul, she said, I have optimized many HR operations in my time as a consultant. I can do your job. He looked up at her. You cannot do mine, she continued. You can ask Mark to pick who he wants to keep, she said, crossing her arms. How dare you? he said as he stood up. You can either work with me to resolve our issues, she said, opening her arms, or you can be history. Now Paul stormed out of his office and headed straight for Mark's office. Marie sat back down in the chair across from Paul's desk. I did not see that one coming, she thought to herself, her mind completely blank. A minute later Eric walked by the door. Seeing Marie in Paul's office, he walked backwards and popped his head in through the doorway. Marie? he said. What are you doing in Paul's office? Without Paul. Pissing him off, Marie said. Yeah, I just saw him in Mark's office, he said. He seemed rather animated. Eric looked at Marie. Come on, let's get you reunited with your phone, he said. Marie stood up and followed Eric to his desk. They passed Mark's office on the way, and Mark looked at Marie through the glass next to his door. Marie met his gaze but had a hard time reading his expression. He seemed to have a sparkle in his eye. Any news on Willie? Marie asked Eric. No, he's been in the data centre most of the day, Eric said. He looked at Marie. Have you spoken to Paul or Mark about him yet? Eric asked. Apparently I've chosen to address the underlying issue of how we put Willie in the position he is in, rather than talking about Willie directly, Marie said, shrugging. That might be a smart approach, Eric said. Might be the operative word, Marie said. You've got this, Marie, Eric said. Marie looked at him and tried to smile, but her stomach had stiffened into what felt like concrete. Marie was trying to focus on reading emails in her office when Mark walked in. He closed the door behind him and sat down. He looked at her and whistled. Are we in a mood today? he said. He looked at him, trying to read his intention. His eyes were still sparkling. What do you mean? she said, as calmly as she could muster. I told you I want to do a museum of failure session with you and Paul, he said. Seems like you've already started digging up corpses. His expression was soft. He seemed cheerful. Willie is getting caught in the middle of our HR dysfunction, Marie said. Because of his salary gap with Shane? Mark said. And because of the freaking soda machines, Marie said. Mark rolled his eyes. Everyone is on my case about those soda machines, he said. They make no sense, Marie said. What were you thinking? Mark's expression toughened. He looked at the floor. I wasn't doing my best work, he said. He looked at Marie. We're not the only group with dysfunction, he said. I'm not sure you understand what pressure I face. Marie nodded. She did not understand. Mark looked at his knees for a couple of moments. We need to mend the relationship between you and Paul, he said. Marie nodded. You do not understand the pressures he faces either, Mark said. Marie looked up and lifted her eyebrows. You do not deal with the legal issues we face sometimes, Mark continued. And Paul has had a really tough month after Frank's situation. Did Frank sue us? she asked. No. We let Frank go, Mark said. Marie straightened up in her seat. I thought he resigned, Marie said. As I said, Mark continued, it has been a really difficult month for Paul. Marie's concrete block in her gut suddenly thawed. I had no idea, she said. You are right about one thing, Mark said. Our employees are getting hurt by our dysfunction. But it is not just from Paul's side, and threatening him with dismissal is not going to solve it. Again his eyes were sparkling. You are also right that I would pick you if I had to choose, Mark said and smiled. You probably shouldn't tell me that, Marie said. Why not? he said as he leaned back. You already know. But you can't do both jobs at the same time, and I would rather that you focus on developing our organization than just running it. She looked at him. What was this expression on his face? Pride? Caring? We do need to solve the dysfunction between you and Paul, he said. But we're going to do it in the right way. Marie nodded. We do need to talk about Willie, though, Marie said. He did the sugar stunt, didn't he? Mark said. But it's not his fault, Marie said. We've dropped the ball on him. Mark nodded. I figured that you were trying to protect someone, acting out like that, Mark said. Marie could feel her cheeks heating up. Was she that predictable? Let's give Willie a free pass on this one while we clean up our own mess, Mark said. Just like that? Marie asked. I am the VP of HR, Mark said, and got up to leave. Thursday morning, Marie found Willie waiting for her in the parking lot. He was leaning against the wall in the area where Marie usually parked. As soon as Marie slammed the door, Willie approached her. Do I need to stay in the server room today too? he asked. Marie smiled. No, you can go wherever you want, Marie said. Willie nodded. What will happen to me? he asked. Eventually justice, Marie said. Willie's eyes widened. Will I be fired? he asked. Marie chuckled. No, not justice for the sugar incident, Marie clarified. Justice for being grossly underpaid. Willie looked down at the asphalt. Marie continued Mark is not going to pursue this incident, she said. It is not on you, it is a broader problem. That is not fair either, Willie said. You don't see other employees freaking out like that. Marie looked at him. What other employees do you mean? she asked. The engineers, he said. You know, in Jenny's team. Why would they need to freak out? Marie said. Well, they don't freak out, Willie said. But why should they? Marie asked. Because of the pay disparities, Willie continued. Everyone hired in the past year makes almost double of the more seasoned team members. Marie's jaw dropped. What? she almost shouted. I thought you knew, Willie said. I Marie stammered But I'm off the hook, Willie said. Yeah, Marie said, and thought that she clearly was not off the hook yet. As Marie walked towards her office, she heard loud laughter coming from her office. It was the rolling giggles of Sheila. Marie smiled. It was comforting to hear Sheila in a good mood. Marie opened the door to her office. Is there a party in here? she asked. Sheila, Joe, and Eric had moved Marie's monitor and keyboard to the side, and put a large sheet of grey paper on her desk. On the sheet they had drawn the layout of the canteen and put name tags on the ovals, indicating chairs. Town hall today, Sheila said, and we'll be ready. We'll be over prepared, Joe said in a flat tone. Marie looked at her and raised an eyebrow. But we are being really supportive of Sheila's need to prepare, Jo went on, equally flat. Sheila put her arm around Joe. I know you're hating me a little bit right now, Sheila said. I don't hate you, Joe said. I'm just bored with this already. We've gone over it ten times just this morning. You know exactly how it's going to go down. Plus you had nothing to worry about in the first place. How about we take Marie through it one last time, Eric said. Joe looked at Sheila. You go, Joe said. I promise you can remember everything. Sheila beamed. Okay, Marie, let's talk you through it. You are up first, setting the stage for the town hall, she said. And where will she be? Eric asked. Right here, Sheila pointed to the drawing of a podium next to the stairs in the canteen. Right next to where the sugar banner almost fell on you, Eric said. Thanks, Marie said. I do still remember. Then Natalie is up. Now she will only have ten minutes to present the new values, otherwise we will not have enough time for what the session is really about, the teams working through the values. They are not really new values, though, Joe said. Thanks for pointing that out, Joe, Sheila went on, because they are in fact old values that we are just relaunching. Sheila pointed to the sheet of paper. Then we are going to launch our first World Cafe discussion, where we are going to ask people to discuss what these values would mean for their actual work, she said. We're going to ask the teams to fill out these cards on the iPads that we prepped for the teams on each table, Eric said. That way we collect all input from the table and they can easily bring their notes to the second round of the conversation, Sheila continued. I still think we should have used carbon paper, Joe said. We would have had to transcribe all of that afterwards, Sheila said. But writing on paper is still more natural than writing on a digital whiteboard, Joe said. And we have stacks and stacks of it at the bottom of the stairwell. Not so sure about that, Eric said. Shane has been cleaning up down there. What? Joe said. That's where I get all my good supplies. I feel like we're getting off topic here, Sheila said. She pulled the sheet of paper off the table and put it on the floor. Marie had to take a couple of steps back to make room. Under the first sheet, a second sheet with names on it was revealed. Once the first discussion is over, indicated by the ring of a timer, we will ask people to switch seats, Sheila said. The first name tags will be on the table, Joe said. But for the second round, they'll be under the chairs, Eric said. For the second round we will ask people to share their discussions from the first round, Sheila said, by using their notes from the iPads. Will we ask them to add on in the second round? Marie asked. That is the whole idea, Sheila said. By that we get deeper in the second round, sparked by the reflections already had in the first round. And how do we close? Marie asked. When the second bell rings, you will get up on the podium and explain that we will be taking everyone's input and converting it into some actionable notes, Sheila said, and that we will visit their individual department meetings to discuss the notes. Okay, Marie said. I told you you've got it, Joe said. Thanks, Sheila said. Let's go rearrange the tables and put out the name tags, Eric said. Does Joseph know that we'll be rearranging the seating in the canteen? Marie asked. Eric, Joe, and Sheila looked at each other. I didn't tell him, Eric said. Me neither, Joe said. Then let's go tell him now, Sheila said, rolling up the sheet on the floor and heading out of the office. Eric and Joe followed suit. The canteen was buzzing a few minutes before the town hall was about to start. Marie was standing on the podium, looking at the top of the stairs. The banner had been taken down, yet her hands were sweaty. How many engineers were there that were as dissatisfied as Willie but did not have the creativity to put up a banner? Joe came over and gave Marie a microphone. Natalie was walking back and forth at the bottom of the podium speaking on her phone. She looked up at Marie and held up one finger. Marie nodded and walked forwards and started looking around the room. People started sitting down. Sheila and Eric were helping people find their name tags on the big sheet of paper and showing them where the actual table was. Natalie got off the phone and gave it to Joe. Dear colleagues, Marie started. The room was buzzing. Dear colleagues, Marie went on, now the room falling more silent. We have a special edition of the town hall for you today, where we will be working through our values and what they mean for the ways we work, Marie said. But first here is Natalie reintroducing our company values, Marie said, reaching a hand out to Natalie. People started clapping. Joe turned on the slide that showed the company's values. Children's brains are not for commercial gain. Curiosity, collaboration, courage, commitment. Natalie went on to tell the story of how the company was founded and how they have grown with these values. Marie was looking around the room. At one of the tables there was an animated discussion happening. Marie slowly walked over to Joe and whispered How have you distributed people at the tables for the first round? Mainly by department, Joe said. Marie looked at Joe. So who is sitting at that table to the left? Marie asked. Those are engineers, Joe said, both from the data center team, but also from the development team. Marie's heart sank. There they were, the engineers equally as unhappy as Willie, sitting together at a table, listening to the CEO of the company talking about commitment. She handed the microphone to Joe and slowly walked over to the table on the far left of the room. She pulled up a chair from the stack leaning against the wall and sat between the two most animated men. They both looked up at her, raising their eyebrows. May I join you? Marie whispered. One of the engineers scooted over to the side. The other one looked sternly at Marie. What are you, our kindergarten teacher? he said, not whispering at all. Well, are you a child? she retorted. He laughed. All right, Marie. It's about time you made your way to engineering, he said. She smiled at him just as people started clapping at Natalie's introduction. Joe introduced the first assignment from the stage, and the room started buzzing. An engineer at the other end of the table picked up the iPad and started taking notes. Everyone at the table was discussing, except the two engineers Marie was sitting next to. Marie started regretting her choice of joining their table. So Marie, what does the value of commitment mean to you? The engineer on her left asked. The one on her right moved in closer. That is the question posed to you, she said. No, the engineer on her right said, because I understand commitment. I understand what it takes to deliver our solutions to the children who use them. I understand which servers Aslo lives on and how it is backed up. I understand because I built it myself. I understand because I spent my nights and weekends making sure that it keeps running. What do you understand? Sitting there on the second floor, poaching useless engineers from other companies who don't even know how to code and paying them twice the salary and contributing zero. Zero. Marie's cheeks started to flame up. The engineer stood up, threw his chair on the floor, and turned to Marie. Zero he shouted, and went for the door. Marie swallowed, took a deep breath, and looked at the engineer on her left. Do you feel the same way? she asked, her voice cracking. Here's a drama queen, he said. No, I've got my resume all polished up, and taking a note out of Natalie's book for what commitment means in Zebra Apps. He crossed his arms and sat back in his chair. Marie did not know what to do. Willie had warned her, but she had not seen how deep this dissatisfaction ran in the engineering team. Come with me, a voice said from behind Marie. Marie turned around to see Jenny, the VP of Engineering, standing behind her. Marie got up to leave. She felt like she shouldn't abandon her post or conversation with the engineer, but at this point her courage was failing her and any distraction was welcome. She picked up the chair and pushed it firmly under the table. They walked into the hallway where Jenny stopped. You got Willie off the hook, Jenny said. There were bigger things at play, Marie said. Jenny looked down. Marie looked at her. Her eyes were puffy, her lips dry, and her hair was unevenly split. How are you, Jenny? Marie asked. Jenny looked up and sighed. You just sat next to how I am, she said. What do you mean? Marie asked. It's borderline mutiny, Jenny said. In the engineering department? Marie asked. Everyone wants higher pay, and the old guard are not letting any of the new employees near customer facing assignments, Jenny said. Is that why Shane was cleaning up at the bottom of the stairwell? Marie asked. He was doing what? Jenny asked, looking surprised. Marie shrugged her shoulders. Seems like they feel overlooked, Marie said. No shit, Marie, Jenny said, and rolled her eyes. Marie furrowed her eyebrows. I'm sorry, Jenny said, but you've just witnessed five minutes of my every damn day. How long has it been like this? Marie asked. Jenny thought for a moment. Since Shane started, she said. A well paid piece, Marie said. But it was probably already like this before, Jenny said. Shane kind of just provoked everyone over the edge. How does he provoke people? Marie asked. He keeps talking about his salary, Jenny said. Marie thought for a moment. It's like he pushed the human system out of equilibrium, she said, mostly to herself. Jenny looked at Marie. You sound like Anne, she said. Marie smiled, but felt a sting of discomfort. Last time she spoke to Anne, she had said that humours were about to get hot. Anyway, Jenny said, I need you to work your HR magic in the engineering team. Marie took a step back. What do you have in mind? Marie asked. I won't tell you how to do your job, Jenny said. Just fix my team. Marie thought for a moment. Okay, let's fix your team, she finally said. Jenny went back to the canteen to rejoin the town hall. Marie was about to go inside too, but saw Paul walking out. She followed him. Hey, Paul, she shouted, and almost had to sprint to follow him. He turned around. Not now, Marie, he said. It's always not now with you, she said, in the lightest tone she could muster. He turned around and stopped. There is nothing wrong with your little workshop. That's not why I'm leaving, he said. Then why are you leaving my little workshop? Marie said, making air quotes with her fingers. I'm due in court, he said, and started walking again. Jury duty, she concluded to herself. He turned around and stopped again. No. Today we start the lawsuit against Frank, he said, this time waiting long enough to wait for her reaction. Why are we suing Frank? she asked. Because of his treatment of Andrea, he said. Marie could swear that there was a momentary smile on his face when he said that. How did he treat Andrea? she asked. Not well, Paul said, turning around and walking away. Marie did not go after him. What she thought to herself, how did I miss these events? She was about to go back to the canteen, but could not face what felt like a room full of disgruntled engineers. Then a thought struck her. If Frank was let go because of some sort of misconduct, then it was definitely not Sheila's fault that he had resigned, or that he had walked out of the leadership workshop angry. Sheila had nothing to do with it. The thought made her smile. In that moment, the timer dinged from the canteen, indicating that the next round of discussions was about to begin. Marie opened the door to the canteen and walked inside.

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Tune in when we invite guests to comment on this part of Marie's journey. What are your thoughts on Marie's situation? Have you had a similar experience? And what would you have done? Check the conversation on our LinkedIn page and let's maneuver Mondays together.